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In this episode of 'all about business,' James is joined by Becky Willan, CEO of Given, part of Anthesis. They explore the importance of implementing purpose into the heart of your business, the impact of ESG and sustainability on brands, and practical steps for organisations to align profit with meaningful societal impact. Becky shares her journey from working at Body Shop to founding Given, and discusses how companies like John Lewis and Lloyd's Banking Group are navigating purpose-driven transformations.
01:31- introduction
02:26- meet Becky Willan
03:13- defining Purpose in Business
03:48- the journey of Given
07:41- implementing purpose in organisations
11:32- case study: John Lewis Partnership
20:31- case study: Lloyd's Banking Group
24:01- advice for entrepreneurs
29:54- evidence of purpose-driven business success
31:25- purpose vs. philanthropy: understanding the difference
33:52- Reed's purpose-driven philanthropy model
34:54- steps to implementing purpose in your organisation
36:44- the importance of employee engagement and culture
40:14- challenges and pitfalls in purpose-driven organisations
42:54- case study: Centrica's purpose transformation
49:49- IKEA's purpose and philanthropy
51:35- personal reflections and future aspirations
53:56- conclusion and final thoughts
Find out more about Given: https://givenagency.com/about-us/
Follow Becky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/becky-willan-5887a88/
Follow James on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chairmanjames/
All about business is brought to you by Reed Global. Learn more at: www.reed.com
This podcast was co-produced by Reed Global and Flamingo Media. If you’d like to create a chart-topping podcast, visit Flamingo-media.co.uk
[00:00:00] James: Welcome to all about business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business management and leadership. Every episode, I sit down with different guests, bootstrap companies, masterminded investment models, built a business empire. They're leaders in their field, and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture.
Consumers
and workers have shifted their focus. With ESG and sustainability being the new generation's priority, it's not just the service you provide that they're looking at, it's the values your brand stands for. Having a clear purpose is key to driving growth and meaningful brand impact. But what does purpose even mean?
And how do you implement it into the heart of your organization long term? Joining me today on all about business is Becky Willen. Becky is the co [00:01:00] founder and CEO of Given, a sustainability consultancy and creative agency. She also hosts the podcast, Purposing. Becky's helped brands like Ikea, John Lewis, and Virgin Media make a positive impact with purpose driven growth.
A leading voice in purpose and sustainability, she's dedicated her career to helping businesses become a force for good.
So, Becky, thank you so much for coming in to talk with me today. You're here. To demystify purpose. This is where we hear so much, especially these days in business. What's it all about? What's it mean? Why is it important?
[00:01:42] Becky: Well, I think it's worth starting, um, with a definition because as you say, purpose is a word that gets thrown around quite a lot.
I think it often gets misused as well. Um, but when we talk about purpose, we mean a management approach for profitably solving the problems of people in the [00:02:00] planet. So, that's not purely about CSR, it's not about philanthropy, it's definitely not marketing. It's a really comprehensive approach for running a business in a way that creates value for all kinds of different people and not just for shareholders.
[00:02:17] James: Okay, so you started a company a while ago called Given with the express purpose of sort of spreading the word on purpose. That's right, isn't it? Yeah. As a young entrepreneur, what made you think of that? I mean, why did you settle on that as your business idea?
[00:02:32] Becky: As an economics graduate I'd always been really interested in the power of business to shape the world that we're in.
And as an idealist from a very young age, I was a very annoying precocious child I think, I'd always been interested in thinking about how you could use those big ideas to change the world. And so after I left university, I was looking for an opportunity to bring [00:03:00] those two things together. And at the time in the mid 2000s, there were very few companies that were really thinking seriously about those sort of ideas.
The body shop was one of them. So I was really lucky to get My first job after university working at the body shop looking at everything from, you know, their first real climate change strategy to the stuff that they are really well known for campaigning on big issues. When I left the body shop, I moved into consulting and I was working with big corporates.
And I was really struck by how, you know, we were talking about some of the same issues, but in a completely different way. People saw them as about, you know, managing risk or, you know, very operational. Sometimes people would sort of roll their eyes when you came into the room because this was like not the exciting stuff that was going on, um, in their businesses.
And it had been so different at the Body Shop. And so I guess at the time I thought, well, I think the world needs more Body Shops. And I couldn't see an organization that was set up to help big businesses think that way. So [00:04:00] yes, about these big issues, but to do it creatively, to connect with people, Um, and so starting Given back in at the end of 2009 was really the opportunity to create something new that could help businesses think differently about the role that they played in the world and to make that a source of stuff that was exciting, that would create value, that would connect people with their brand and what they stood for.
[00:04:23] James: So my first job after university was at the body shop sometime before you and it's interesting because I was attracted to it. For the same sort of reasons, uh, this was back in 1984, so a long time ago. Wow, 40 years ago now. And at that time, Anita Roddick, she'd just won Businesswoman of the Year, very dynamic entrepreneur.
I was attracted to all of that. But also, they had these principles about not testing their products on animals and fair trade. with the suppliers from the countries all around the world that they worked with. And I find that quite inspiring. So you had the [00:05:00] same, you drank from the same cup, so to speak, which is interesting.
But then you said you went to this consultancy and people were sort of rolling their eyes when you were talking about this. How did you feel about that? I mean, why were they rolling their eyes? Because there's clearly something in this.
[00:05:14] Becky: There is, and I think it was that, At the time, I think, um, you know, these were issues that were often seen as important but worthy.
Definitely not exciting. You know, I think there's a sense of dissonance. People knew that something needed to change, but I think there was a, you know, the sense that this was a bit of a, there was a hair shirt brigade who were, you know, telling big companies that they had to stop doing stuff. Right. And, you know, I think people were fed up with being told that they, you know, about what they were doing wrong rather than being presented with a picture that was exciting and inspiring about how things could change.
[00:05:59] James: So you [00:06:00] changed the conversation then? Yes. Given you would go to them and say, hang on a minute, you don't have to think about it like that. Yeah. Here's a new way. So what, what was your message? How did you get people started on this journey?
[00:06:10] Becky: Well, I think I've always believed that the most, you know, exciting businesses and brands are those that stand for something more than just making decent products or making profit for their owners.
And I think what's brilliant, you know, 15 years on is that I think more people are starting to believe in that too, whether that's about, you know, attracting the best talent to work for your organization or. Differentiating yourselves in the market from competitors, um, or using a bigger idea to inspire innovation, um, you know, new products and services.
So that's what we were really trying to lean into, I guess, was to say, this is about changing the way that you do things, but it's all, it's in pursuit of. more value, more [00:07:00] interesting, relevant, resilient brands and businesses. So really trying to sell the benefit of a different approach to management rather than listing out all the problems or all the things that needed to stop within an organization.
[00:07:18] James: We're delighted that you're watching this episode. Please hit the subscribe button if you'd like to receive more insights and actionable advice that will help your business and or career. Yeah, I mean, you've gotta believe in it though. I mean, if you, I mean, it's not just a tick box exercise. This, you're making more successful.
Yeah. I mean, if you're gonna be in Anita Roddick or Yeah, body Shop, you kind of, it is sort of right in the DNA of the companies that it has. How, how do you get that? So they do believe, but I think
[00:07:46] Becky: you're right. You're right. I think, I think for a long time, um, people working in. you know, what we might call corporate sustainability, um, you know, have really focused on the [00:08:00] technical discipline, you know, how do you measure carbon emissions?
How do you understand in, you know, evidence based ways the environmental impact or the social impact of a business? And that's really important, but that in itself is unlikely to lead to change within an organization. What changes organizations is people. So helping People tap into a sense of purpose is a really important starting point.
And I think the job that we're often brought in to do is to harness that interest in a sense of purpose and turn that into something that has real clarity and can be used as a strategic tool. tool for that business can help shape the culture. So what that means in, in practice for us is that we spend a lot of time with people in the organizations at every level.
So yes, it's really important to. [00:09:00] make sure that the leadership team are aligned, that the CEO particularly is brought into this idea of purpose, being a management approach and not just a strapline that makes everybody feel good while they carry on with business as usual. But it's also important to connect with the entire organization.
So understanding what is motivating to people in that organization, what problems they're trying to solve for customers. You know, what's going on in the world that means what they do as a business matter. It's really tapping into that, um, that, that human side of organizations and excavating from that an idea that is bigger than the business or bigger than the category that can really start to drive that
[00:09:46] James: change.
Are you able to give me an example just to sort of illustrate? Yeah,
[00:09:50] Becky: yeah, sure. So I think on the last sort of point about in terms of. This not being something that I think you can invent, you have to [00:10:00] excavate it from within an organization. So, a couple of years ago, we worked with, um, the John Lewis Partnership.
Um, they are an incredibly, you know, purposeful, purpose driven organization. But actually, if you tried to articulate what that core purpose was, you know, you asked, You know, 10 different partners. Um,
[00:10:21] James: never knowing the undersold coming back. It is
[00:10:24] Becky: coming back. And that's the, that's the price promise for their customers.
And some people said that some people referred to their constitution, which is the formal document that set out sort of employee
[00:10:35] James: owned, obviously
[00:10:36] Becky: owned. So, um, you know, that's why they have partners rather than employees. You know, some people would say, well, You know, we're a good business, but nobody could really tell you what core purpose was.
And so we were brought in to help work with the leadership team. Yes, but with the entire population of about 80, 000 partners to codify what that really meant and where we got to. was [00:11:00] this idea of working in partnership for a happier world. Now, the idea of happiness is something that you can trace right back to John Speedon Lewis, who was, um, I guess the, uh, sort of the person who invented what John Lewis Partnership became.
He sort of
[00:11:16] James: gave the shares to the workforce, didn't he?
[00:11:18] Becky: And he really believed that good work improved people's lives. Um, but what we had to look at in, you know, the 21st century was that this wasn't just an experiment in industrial democracy, which was what he was really interested in. This was also about making sure that as an organization, um, you know, as a retailer, first and foremost, that there was real relevance to customers and to communities.
So this idea of working in partnership for a happy world was about creating a happier, happier people, happier business. successful business and a happier planet. Um, and that then become, [00:12:00] became a really important part of the partnership plan. Um, you know, the new business strategy, which is starting now to bear some fruit for the organization in terms of All right.
So, so
[00:12:10] James: what are they doing then that might be slightly different as a result of this?
[00:12:13] Becky: Yeah. Yeah. So, definitional
[00:12:15] James: excavation of this. Yeah. The
[00:12:17] Becky: first things, um, that they did was to look at how do we, um, create a workplace that really, um, makes our people happier. And they looked at the key points in people's work lives that could be a source of all happiness or not.
So they were, um, as a result of that, they were, um, one of the first, um, major retailers to introduce, um, equal parental leave, recognizing that having kids can be an amazing moment of happiness for people and how can an employer really support people in those moments. So that was a real standout moment.
They also, again, because they've always believed in the, um, the role of, of meaningful [00:13:00] work in helping people be happy and reckoned and saw that, um, there was a particular group of, um, people who were really, um, sort of disadvantaged and marginalizing that, um, young people leaving the care system. They developed a whole program, um, designed to support, um, young people leaving the care system into better work, recognizing that.
And then they've done some really interesting stuff. Um, for their customers, um, around, uh, especially where it's about helping, um, customers reduce their impact on the planet, for example, so introducing sort of buy back and take back programs. So, and you can see how it, I think that's one of the most important things about an effective corporate or organizational purpose is it actually leads to real impact.
change within the business and it's not just a sort of, you're not just changing the wallpaper. You have a sentence there,
[00:13:57] James: working in partnership for a happier world. [00:14:00] It's a few words. I mean, is that what where you try and get to with everybody who's trying to formulate a purpose? Is that what ultimately we need to have in a business?
Are you saying?
[00:14:11] Becky: I think so. I would say that, um, to be a successful purpose driven business, you need two things. You need. a powerful purpose statement. So being able to provide clarity about what the role of that business is beyond, you know, just making decent products and services. Um, but you also need to live that idea within the business.
And I think the relationship between those two things is important. So, um, in the work that we do to help organizations either define or better articulate that purpose statement, um, It's not just about coming up with a nice set of words. It's about trying to excavate that core idea that can really be a North Star.
Um, and whilst we're [00:15:00] working with the organization, we put it to the test. So we say, well, what would it look like, um, for our products and services? What would it look like for the experience that we create for people? What issues might we take a stand on? And that is the best test of whether, Yeah. a North Star idea, like a purpose, is the right one for an organization.
But beyond that, what we also find is that the more an organization starts to live it, the more powerful that idea becomes. So there's a really sort of, there's a mutually sort of reinforcing idea there.
[00:15:35] James: Now, I like this thought about excavating, because I was thinking about our own journey at Reed. I mean, the company is 64 years old.
It's a family business founded by my father, Alec Reed, in 1960. And we, we, we settled upon a purpose a few years ago, which is improving lives through work. When you say excavating, it was always there, because, you know, by helping people progress in their careers and getting new jobs, we were sort of doing that, but we sort of, [00:16:00] Gave it life and a, and a, and a language by settling on those four words.
But I was thinking back, and I remember the conversation, because at one point it was going to be transforming lives through work. And I remember saying, well, that's, that sounds too exaggerated. Yeah. So we've changed it from transforming to improving lives through work, and what we What I like about is everyone in the business every day of the year can do something to improve someone's life even in a small way.
Yeah. Even if it's just making them a cup of tea or making them laugh or smile or whatever it is. Everyone is actionable for everyone and it's clearly defined and I found that very helpful you know in terms of running the business that's our purpose.
[00:16:41] Becky: It's so important and I think, um, what you've described I think is that the right purpose will be a really useful guide in many different ways.
So yes, it should absolutely be something that everybody within the [00:17:00] organization connects to and can see how their day to day work helps deliver that. But it's also got to be a really important strategic tool. Um, that helps set the strategy for the organization that helps you make choices about what you won't do as well as what you will do.
And
[00:17:20] James: it really does that. I mean, we've looked at business opportunities and I think that doesn't fit or that doesn't really take us further in our purpose. Improving lives through work, so we won't do that, we'll do something else.
[00:17:30] Becky: Yeah, yeah. And how, um, I think there is, there's an interesting question about, um, whether you, rely on the sort of cultural DNA of an organization to make that happen, versus really trying to hardwire it into the organization.
And I think one of the interesting differences between, um, businesses that I guess are born with that strong sense of purpose, versus businesses that perhaps, you know, [00:18:00] have been really focused on profit maximization, say, over the last 30, 40, 50 years, is that in organizations that have sort of almost borne good, I think it's possible to rely on more of that, you know, the cultural sort of behavioral elements.
But what we find in, you know, corporates that have been perhaps run with a different set of principles is that the hardwiring piece is also really important. So, you know, when we work with Lloyd's Banking Group, um, you know, it was really important to look at things like governance. You know, when the board get together, how do we make sure that the purpose becomes part of the conversation?
When we look at how investment management is, um, you know, decisions are made around investment that we're not relying on people's money. discretionary, you know, ability to use the purpose. We're really sort of helping people in that moment. So Lloyd's
[00:18:57] James: Banking Group is another company of where they live.
So what [00:19:00] was their
[00:19:00] Becky: purpose? Well, so the interesting thing about Lloyd's Banking Group was that we didn't go in to change their purpose. They had a purpose statement, helping Britain prosper, that had been Um, defined probably about 15 years ago, um, certainly just after the, the financial crisis. And everybody in the organization knew what those three words were.
There was loads of love for it. But, if you asked people what it meant, how it had shaped a decision that they'd made, um, you know, what it really looked like in terms of impact, there just was not that clarity. So, our job wasn't to come up with a new purpose statement, it was to add much greater definition.
To what that, those three words meant in the context of the business that they were today and the strategy that they had and one of the the important things that we looked at with Lloyd's was how do we take [00:20:00] this idea of, you know, once we've got this better idea of what helping Britain prosper means and that was really about recognizing that Lloyds Bank is unusual in the sense that it's in almost every part of the financial system in the UK.
And so their role can be about making sure that, you know, the way that we, um, invest, save, you know, borrow money, it all matters. It can all contribute to a more sustainable and inclusive future. But what can Lloyds Bank do to really make sure that that happens increasingly over time? So that's the sort of.
the core idea, I guess, that we got to in terms of explaining what helping Britain prosper really meant, but then how you connect that into decision making in an organization. So, at the time, they were also looking at their organizational values, and we were asked to to help make sure that, as those organizational values were refreshed, that they really helped [00:21:00] to build the kind of culture that they needed to be successful, but that also they really connected back to that core purpose.
And so in, at Lloyd's, um, the organizational values are a really important way that people, um, are asked to make sure that they can connect their day to day work back to the purpose. Because sometimes a big lofty idea like helping Britain prosper can be. A bit harder to connect with. So sometimes you need to find that thing that actually sort of makes it more actionable in people's day to day roles.
And their values were a key part of that.
[00:21:34] James: So Lloyd's got an interesting history. I mean, it's a very old bank. And I think it was founded originally by Quakers. And people were happy to put their money with the Quakers because they knew they'd get it back. So it was built on trust. Very important still.
[00:21:50] Becky: Yeah. And so true of um, you know, so many of our big financial services institutions actually built when people were prepared to [00:22:00] pull their resources to, you know, in case the worst happened. And that's certainly the case with lots of insurance companies. I think the thing that's, that's interesting about, um, this idea of purpose as we talk about it is that in itself.
isn't a completely new idea in businesses. You know, we've got John Novo's partnership, you know, famously owned by employees.
[00:22:21] James: Yeah, I think it's almost the original idea. You said companies, some companies are born with this language at the forefront. That's so I'm thinking of the new startup, the young entrepreneur, someone who's thinking about getting going in business.
What advice would you give them? How would you build this in right at the beginning, in a way that would be helpful to your future success?
[00:22:44] Becky: Yeah, for sure. And I think firstly, it is definitely easier to build it in from the beginning. Um, I think having a clear sense of what kind of, you know, organization, what kind of business you want to be, you know, if we [00:23:00] take the definition of purpose that we use profitably solving the problems of people in the planet, you know, how is your business doing that?
Um, so I think definitely, uh, getting to that initial, you know, statement of intent is really important. Um, I would say the way that you do that is as important as, um, the outputs of that work. So I think sometimes there's a tendency for that just to be, um, an executive team sort of mission or a leadership team mission.
And whilst I think it's essential to have leadership team alignment, I don't think you can just, Lock your senior people in a room for a day and get them to come up with it. I think if you want a purpose to really be valuable for a business, it's got to be owned by everybody. And if it's got, you know, if it's going to be owned, then the best way to do that is to involve people in the creation of it.
You know, it's called the IKEA effect. And it's basically the idea that people value something much more if they've been [00:24:00] involved in the creation of it.
[00:24:02] James: For, you mean putting the furniture together? Exactly that.
[00:24:05] Becky: Okay, I've never heard that. The
[00:24:06] James: Ikea of that. Yeah,
[00:24:07] Becky: yeah. And it's why we use a lot of, we use a methodology called co creation in our work, which is, it's not about crowdsourcing, it's not just a free for all, it's a very carefully managed process that enables, you know, often leadership teams to really collaborate with people from across the business to get to, um, a purpose statement that is inspiring.
credible and actionable. Um, so I think that's the first step is to, is to just an
[00:24:33] James: entrepreneur on your own. You know, you're on your own. So you're sort of starting out, you start an idea, you know, some problem you want to solve for customers. How do you think about it? I mean, I mean, do you come up with a sentence on your own?
I mean, you can't afford, you know, the consultancies necessarily. Yeah. What's the, how do you get going in your mind?
[00:24:52] Becky: I think it's really important to understand both the internal dynamic of the organization as well as the external landscape. So [00:25:00] I think if you can answer four questions, and then you're able to look for the themes that bring the answer to those four questions together.
You can have a pretty one of
[00:25:11] James: the questions. So
[00:25:12] Becky: the questions are sort of firstly, you know, capability. So what are the unique sort of assets, skills, qualities that we're good at as an organization or want to be good at? Secondly, culture. What do we like on our best day? You know, how do we work? That's different.
And then looking externally context. What is going on in the world that That means what we do or going to do matters. And finally, communities, you know, what are the problems that we're trying to solve for people, whether they are our customers or they're in the communities that we're part of. And I think if you can spend time thinking about the answer to those four questions, what you'll find, what will emerge.
is some ideas that have real power and [00:26:00] potency to be a North Star for your business or your
[00:26:03] James: business or future business. Yeah. That's really helpful. The four Cs.
[00:26:07] Becky: Four Cs.
[00:26:08] James: That's a good, that's a good model. I think that's very helpful. And then you, you, by grappling with that, potentially find an answer.
[00:26:15] Becky: I think so.
I think, um, you know, a lot of the work that we do is for, you know, with these big complicated organizations, John Lewis, Lloyds, Centrica, you know, and, um, You know, and so actually a lot of our job, because I honestly think you can't outsource this work as much as I've built my career around working with organizations to do exactly this.
But you are the
[00:26:38] James: outsource, aren't you? We, we
[00:26:40] Becky: run a process, we, we facilitate. But
[00:26:44] James: it's done in house. But it's
[00:26:45] Becky: got, you know, ultimately, I can't be the person holding the pen on this. This has got to come from within the organization. I think what people need is a. is people who have done this before, [00:27:00] who know how to facilitate, who know how to, um, hold the space between allowing or creating input, um, and not getting to something that he's just has had so much input, it's lost its potency.
So that's a lot of what we're doing, I guess, is sort of that facilitation.
[00:27:23] James: Yeah, I'm thinking if you're a manager in a business, quite successful, you're making profit. Yeah. Why would I want to engage in this sort of work? I mean, is it because it's going to make me more successful? Is that what you're saying?
[00:27:37] Becky: I think it depends how you define success. That's part of every
[00:27:40] James: course, the journey we're on. I mean, because I think what you're saying, if I'm hearing you, is that it should make you more successful in a commercial sense.
[00:27:47] Becky: Yes, and whether that's your main motivation or not, I think, you know, there's a question now.
I think What we find is that, um, businesses that are driven by [00:28:00] purpose, so they don't just have this sort of slogan, you know, there is a purpose that is used in the organization and used effectively. They, um, tend to attract talent more effectively. They have more motivated, productive workforces. They innovate more.
They have more distinctive brands, um, you know, and they have more loyal customers. So there is a clear business case for doing it. Um, I think there is
[00:28:28] James: evidence for that. I mean, those are the five things that you said that I'm thinking. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I want those in our business.
[00:28:34] Becky: Yeah, there is evidence.
The extent to which it's causal versus relational, I think will always be, you know, will always be challenged. But, um, you know, in even in, you know, in the work that we do with the organization. So, you know, when we take John Lewis partnership, for example, when the um, the refreshed purpose was properly [00:29:00] integrated into the business, they started using it in recruitment.
They saw the number of applications increase significantly. For example, so, you know, there is, you can look at these on a individual sort of case by case basis, but there is a. a growing amount of evidence to suggest that this is good business and that ultimately, you know, if you, anything that helps you take a long term perspective that thinks, helps you think about value creation rather than most production, um, that helps you think about what a resilient, relevant business is going to look like, I think has to be a good thing.
And that's what I think purpose really helps organizations do, it helps provide clarity about the stuff that really matters. Um, and that's got to be, and it's putting
[00:29:51] James: value creation at the forefront.
[00:29:52] Becky: Definitely. Definitely. Because I think one of the, um, I think one of the ways in which purpose is misunderstood is [00:30:00] that it's seen to be synonymous with corporate social responsibility or philanthropy, for example.
Yeah.
[00:30:06] James: Talk me through the difference because that's the confusion that I think comes up quite a lot. Yeah. What is the difference between purpose and philanthropy? Yeah.
[00:30:13] Becky: Well, I would say that philanthropy is generally about, um, Giving away profit you've made to good causes, um, and it can be somewhat discretionary, um, within businesses, it's often seen as a sort of particular team's job to decide where that goes, um, and I think there's less attention paid to how that profit is generated in the first place, whereas if you think about purpose, it's It's about how you make that profit in the first place.
So it's about how you run the whole business. It is about trying to maximize the value for society. It's everybody's job. Um, and I think [00:31:00] what you find is that because it's about core business, it's much more likely to have a sort of big, sustainable impact over time, because it's about the way that you do business, not just some discretionary stuff that you do on the side that's outside of the core business.
I think where the two can come together is if there are big issues, big sort of systemic issues that the business is trying to think about through purpose, through its purpose, it might be helpful to boost that through philanthropy. But I tell you, it's always important to start with the The purpose rather than start with philanthropy, because it's much more likely to be impactful, sustainable and create value, not just get switched off as soon as.
[00:31:53] James: Hi, I hope you're enjoying this episode of All About Business. Next April, our charity partners, [00:32:00] Big Give, will be running their annual Green Match Fund, where all the money raised will go to environmental charities around the world. If you know a green charity that would benefit from doubling their donations, Get them to register by January the 16th, 2025.
The link is in the show notes. Okay, back to the episode. I think of Reed as a purpose led philanthropy company. And we have our purpose, which is every day, everyone, I hope, but we're a philanthropy company because our largest shareholder is a charitable foundation. 18%. So everyone in the business really works one day a week for charity.
And that's how the money gets sort of recycled through. to good causes from the dividends that are paid into the foundation. And I think they are very different, as you say, and they should not be confused.
[00:32:51] Becky: And I think, um, in those sort of family owned businesses, I think, are particularly effective purpose driven organizations, [00:33:00] um, because I think there is that propensity, natural propensity, to be able to think in generations rather than Just in quarters.
Um,
[00:33:11] James: exactly. And one family is also part of community. Yeah,
[00:33:14] Becky: yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly,
[00:33:16] James: yeah, you got your name above the shop, you know, that's important.
[00:33:20] Becky: Yeah,
[00:33:20] James: reputation.
[00:33:21] Becky: Yeah, yeah,
[00:33:22] James: important. So you've obviously done a lot of work helping organizations find that purpose, excavate that purpose, however you wish to describe it.
What would you say the key? I mean, apart from calling given and getting you to come in and help. Yeah. What? How? How should companies go about this? If someone listening is thinking, I think our company could do better in this space.
[00:33:44] Becky: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:33:45] James: What are some of the things that they should start doing?
[00:33:47] Becky: So I think I think having a clarity of purpose is a really important first step.
Um, but I think A lot of, um, you know, what often happens is that a company will say, well, we've got our [00:34:00] purpose statement job done. Um, and I think actually what I like to remind clients about is that that moment is, you know, the starting gun rather than the champagne cork moment, because actually, you know, there will be some things that naturally happen that will be aligned to that sense of purpose.
But for a lot of organizations, actually, um, It's quite a lot of stuff that would need to change. And so What we would encourage people to think about is that, that in a really holistic way, so, you know, how do decisions get made within the organization? Is it always a gonna prior, you know, is, is it always about prioritizing profit and cost or risk?
You know, how do we make sure that when big and small decisions get made, It is really in pursuit of purpose. The governance is so often boring, but it's really important in this space. I think, um, you know, when you're thinking about innovation and new ideas, that can be a really powerful application of.
[00:35:00] the purpose in, in, in practice. Um, and often internally, as well as, you know, externally, that's where often the kind of the evidence for the purpose living can be most easily felt when you do new things. Um, I think the role of, um, culture and engagement is really important. So how are you equipping your leaders to lead with purpose, um, and role model, you know, the behaviors that really mean that that's possible.
Um, and then you've got the hard piece. So You know, are the core policies, systems, processes going to help people make decisions that are aligned to or driven by the purpose or are they going to get in the way? You know, how do you reward people within the organization? Is that linked to purpose? You know, and that could be informal or formal recognition.
You know, people that get promoted, are they people that are, you know, most sort of powerful champions of the purpose or are they people that are really successful and don't pay any attention to that? [00:36:00] So I think that's when we talk about living the purpose, it's all of, it's the collection of all of those things together.
Um, so that it is genuinely embedded in the fabric of the organization, not just a sort of. mantra that you might see at the beginning of a slide deck or I
[00:36:19] James: was struck by what you were saying about people.
[00:36:22] Becky: Yeah.
[00:36:22] James: Managers leave. Yeah. How, how do you get people to sort of embrace this and live it and make sure that they're consistent?
[00:36:32] Becky: Yeah. I
[00:36:32] James: mean, that's clearly key to this succeeding.
[00:36:35] Becky: It is. And I would say it starts with how you've developed that articulation of purpose in the first place. If you've done that in a way that, where the people have been involved in that, and you're trying to re fresh a sense of purpose within an organisation.
This is the
[00:36:51] James: IKEA. It's
[00:36:52] Becky: the IKEA effect. Yeah, so
[00:36:53] James: you need to do that. Um, so you
[00:36:54] Becky: need to do that, and once you've done that, I think, um, you've got to, [00:37:00] um, give people time to express doubts. Yes. I think sometimes we can be a bit too evangelical about this stuff. Um, and then really importantly, I think you've got to help people find their personal connection with the organizational purpose.
So, So, you know, there is, um, we've often, you know, use a, a, a Japanese, uh, philosophy called Ikigai, which is about finding your sense of personal purpose. And we've helped clients design, you know, engage in my program. There is a book called Ikigai. It's good. I've read it. Yeah. Yeah. Live longer, happier, and kind of more purposeful.
But it's basically saying if you can connect, you know, what you can be paid for with what you're good at, with what you love, with what the world needs, then you will. live, you know, and a much happier, more fulfilled life. And so if you can connect people within an organization, their own innate sense of [00:38:00] purpose to a bigger idea that exists at the business level, I think that's a really important step.
So giving people, you know, the, the space, the, the, the invitation to do that. Um, and then asking them to replicate that with their teams effectively is a really important part of this. Um, So a lot of it is about helping leaders and managers sort of have the confidence to talk about, and the conviction I guess, to talk about their own sense of purpose within the context of the corporate purpose as well as the more practical side of it too.
I
[00:38:36] James: like what you said about giving people space and time to express doubts.
[00:38:40] Becky: Yes.
[00:38:40] James: What are the sort of doubts that you get coming back?
[00:38:43] Becky: Well, I think, um, you know, I think there's a sense that this is sort of corporate. Yeah,
[00:38:53] James: that could be one. So how do you sort of work your way through that?
[00:38:58] Becky: I think a lot of the time, [00:39:00] um, it depends on the organisation.
I think, um, I think what people find is that actually if they listen to the people within the organisation, then it's not a particular segment or demographic that want the organisation that they work for to be better. It's pretty much everyone, because who doesn't want to align their personal values with?
You know, the work that they do, and then we've got the business case, which is growing, um, in evidence, but one of the things that, um, we've, we've done some research this year on, um, what we call the purpose gap, so the difference that exists between the aspiration and a purpose statement and then the reality of the business, and I think it's fair to say that you want a bit of a gap because you want a purpose to be, you know, aspirational and North Star, but what you don't want is for nothing to have happened.
In that organization to get any closer to it actually being true. Um, and so in the research that we've done this year, about half of the [00:40:00] people that we've spoken to, to 2000 people working in big companies in the UK said that there was very little relationship between the words in the purpose statement and the experience that they have in the business.
The reality of dates on the floor sort thing, reality stay on the shot floor, that. You know, their experience was either not aligned at all or only very partially aligned with that idea. And then what was interesting is, um, that for the first time this year, we asked whether that actually mattered to them, um, in terms of the relationship that they had with their employer and nearly 50 percent of people.
So 47 percent of people said that. their employer not delivering on their purpose would give them a reason to leave that organization. So, yeah, and what was interesting about that was that that that's not a Gen Z sort of all millennial thing. That was across all.
[00:40:51] James: Now I can see that being a problem with a lot of corporate initiatives, you know, coming down from the top and we're just getting on with trying to serve the customers.
And what's all this [00:41:00] about? Um, people being a bit skeptical. Yes. How do you bridge that? I mean, when, when you've got people on the shop floor saying, Well, it doesn't really make any difference to me. I mean, is it because the purpose isn't right or it hasn't been given proper expression and perhaps either you're the specialist here.
How would you make that work for everyone better?
[00:41:17] Becky: I think that's an interesting question in itself. Like, how do you know when a purpose isn't working? Um, and that was something that we were asked to, to help Centrica figure out because they had a, a purpose statement and their leadership team. So the top 100 people in the business just felt that It wasn't, it, it, it, it, it, it wasn't the right kind of place.
May
[00:41:37] James: I ask what it was? Can you remember what it was?
[00:41:38] Becky: It was, um, I can remember. It was helping you live simply, sustainably, affordably.
[00:41:46] James: Centrica
[00:41:47] Becky: Centrica.
[00:41:48] James: Right.
[00:41:49] Becky: And they
[00:41:50] James: sell gas and stuff, which has gone up in price. They
[00:41:53] Becky: do. And this was a couple of years ago. Right.
[00:41:56] James: Okay. I can see that was challenging.
[00:41:57] Becky: And, and also it didn't, there were parts of the business [00:42:00] that it didn't connect with, like the energy trading division, for example.
Yeah. Um, I guess our point of view coming into this was that the purpose. Might not be completely wrong. It might just be that people don't understand it or they don't know how to use it. As it turned out, um, we felt that there was a kind of more balanced approach. relevant, powerful, inspiring articulation of their purpose, um, that we helped them develop, which was, um, energizing a greener, fairer future.
So we're much sort of bigger idea that could really help. I can remember
[00:42:35] James: that.
[00:42:36] Becky: Yeah.
[00:42:37] James: I can remember it though. That's a good start. Yeah. Yeah. But
[00:42:39] Becky: a bigger idea that would help reorientate the business around. their role in driving, um, the energy transition that we need, um, at the moment. So, so that, so I think there is a question about So
[00:42:51] James: were they pleased with that?
They were very pleased. I like energizing a greener, fairer future.
[00:42:56] Becky: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really, um, it's driving a lot of, [00:43:00] um, change in the business and change, cultural change, as well as, you know, strategic stuff that I think will help them, um, yeah, over, over the long term. But I think what's key for that to, for an idea like that to land, not just be launched, but actually to land.
Yes, that's what
[00:43:22] James: I'm interested in. How do you land it?
[00:43:24] Becky: Is I think making sure that there is that connection, that there's something that happens that actually improves the experience of the average employee within that organization. So going back to the John Lewis partnership, um, you know, that idea of introducing equal parental leave.
you know, at, um, Centrica, they've re looked, um, at the sort of skills, um, program, and it's a big, complicated organization. They've looked at a number of different things, from skills to volunteering, um, that really help translate that big idea into something that is actually [00:44:00] beneficial for a gas engineer.
So you
[00:44:01] James: need actions as well as words.
[00:44:03] Becky: It's essential. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say Otherwise the words just
[00:44:06] James: float off. Yeah. People forget it. They,
[00:44:08] Becky: they, they do, or they, worse, they might remember it. And just feel completely cynical about it, because
[00:44:14] James: That would be worse. Yeah. And I can see that happening. Yeah,
[00:44:18] Becky: yeah.
And I would say that actually if you're going to go to the effort of thinking about what words might describe your purpose, then you also really need to think about what actions bring it to life from day one. Um, I think that's an essential. Part of the mix because otherwise it is just a set of words that yeah, I feel that's a
[00:44:42] James: very important piece of advice Yeah, because we've been talking a lot about purpose and the statements for the actions that go with it and every bit is important
[00:44:51] Becky: I think they might be more important
[00:44:52] James: more important to bring it to life.
[00:44:54] Becky: Yeah
[00:44:55] James: Yes, so so what have you seen go wrong? I mean, this is obviously [00:45:00] it's It doesn't always work and, you know, people are accused of corporate wokery and greenwashing and all these other things. What are some of the pitfalls that people need to be careful in?
[00:45:11] Becky: Um, I think making sure that there is real alignment, um, at the leadership level about what a, what a good purpose is and what it's going to be used for.
Um, before you even start the work is really important. This isn't, can't be a marketing exercise or a sort of PR exercise. Um, so really making sure that everyone on the leadership team is signed up, that this is something that is going to be lived, that it is going to change things, um, is really, really important.
And I think if that doesn't happen, then I think either you won't ever get to a, purpose that feels credible or worse, you sort of launch it into the [00:46:00] business and then it, you know, you don't do anything with it. So I think, I think, um, that sense of leadership ownership is really, really important. Um, I think it's essential that you do the work to help people understand what purpose driven decision making looks like so that purpose, the purpose doesn't get misused as a sort of excuse for certain, I don't know, pet projects or political things.
And I think that's where that governance piece
[00:46:35] James: that goes hijacked in some case, I
[00:46:36] Becky: think it can do. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think it's important as well that it's not just seen as the CEO's thing. Um, that work has done to really embed it into the organization. Um, and, and I think it's, um, I think it's key to see it as a journey of you know, [00:47:00] continuous improvement.
If you think that just putting the purpose out there is job done, then you will never get the benefits of being a purpose driven organization. And
[00:47:08] James: you said it was a starting gun,
[00:47:09] Becky: starting gun. I think the role of if you are lucky enough to have a board or sort of non exec advisors, I think they can play a really important role in this because you know, they should be thinking long term for the business.
I love the idea of boards, um, or even management teams doing a a purpose stock take every year, you know, creating a space for reflection and learning on the previous year. Did we really do stuff that lived up to our purpose? I like
[00:47:39] James: that. So that's a sort of review.
[00:47:41] Becky: Yes.
[00:47:42] James: Yeah.
[00:47:42] Becky: You know, if we looked at our P& L this year, how much of it could we really say was driven by our purpose?
Like if we asked our stakeholders, would they really, would they really recognize our purpose as being more than words on the page? Is there anything we said no to? because of [00:48:00] our purpose and doing that because I think it's, you know, I think doing that once a year allows a bit more space for reflection and learning and to hold your hands up and say, you know what, we wouldn't We wouldn't do that again.
[00:48:13] James: That's always useful. Reflection, learning is always useful. That's why we, that's why we're talking to each other. So is Ikea a client of yours? I have to ask?
[00:48:21] Becky: Yes, they are. Or has
[00:48:22] James: been. I love this IKEA effect. Yeah. So, so can you tell, tell me what their purpose is? Is that possible?
[00:48:27] Becky: Yes, yes. So I, we can't, I mean, IKEA is one of those businesses that have articulated their purpose at some point in the seventies, I think.
So their purpose is, uh, something like helping the many people. Um, living, to live a better life at home. Um, Now, what's interesting about that is that it's, you know, the many people is really that sense of democratization. Um, you know, they play a key role in, you know, the homes that we have. We might even be sitting on Ikea.
[00:48:57] James: Quite possibly. Well, they're also a philanthropy company. They have a big [00:49:00] charitable foundation. They have a big foundation. So very interesting to me.
[00:49:02] Becky: Yeah. And, and I think what, um, so the, the work that we do with Ikea is actually, um, really helping to um, help them understand what a better life at home looks like and how that's changing and therefore what role they can play in people's lives.
Um, so, you know, and that's about the, the products and services they sell. It's about the sort of the, the advice that they give us, but it's also about the advocacy, the stuff that they stand for.
[00:49:32] James: Making the assembly easier. Yeah,
[00:49:35] Becky: quite possibly. Possibly, but they're doing, but I think they're brilliant because You know, they are constantly pushing themselves to profitably solve problems of people on the planet.
And, you know, even just very recently have launched a, you know, a resale platform that means that, um, you can pass on furniture that you don't need. Such a
[00:49:58] James: good idea. And such a good idea. [00:50:00] Yeah. And that's really consistent with what you're
[00:50:02] Becky: talking about. Exactly. Yeah.
[00:50:04] James: What gets you up on a Monday mornings?
[00:50:09] Becky: The sounds. Super cheesy, I think, but I think working in the space that I do, I think it would be remiss not to have a sense of my own personal purpose. And for me, that's all about, um, using the creativity and influence that I have to get powerful people to do things better. Um, and so the idea that I've got an opportunity to influence, you know, a leadership team, a CEO.
You know, it keeps me on my toes, but I find it incredibly motivating. So, getting, yeah, powerful people to make their businesses better. Because we need more good businesses. Um, that is the thing that gets me up. I'm not ashamed to say it. [00:51:00]
[00:51:00] James: That was very good. I'm pleased to hear it. You're entirely consistent with your message.
And then the second question is a question from my interview book, Why You. 101 interview questions you'll never fear again. 101 is one of the Classic fateful 15. It's where do you see yourself in five years time?
[00:51:19] Becky: Well, that's a really interesting question for me right now because, um, given the business that I founded, um, nearly 15 years ago and became part of a bigger professional services firm, um, 50 people to 1500 people in 20 markets around the world.
So I really hope that in, um, Five years time I've got a really big job, um, at Anthesis having sort of successfully integrated Gibbon into that business, um, love to be doing more work internationally. Um, I'd love to continue, um, spreading the word, I guess, around [00:52:00] Purpose. Um, you know, maybe there's a book in there, um, myself.
Um, but yeah, definitely still doing this and hopefully on a, you know, with more clients and more places around the world.
[00:52:13] James: Very good. We'll invite you back. Hopefully. I'll be around as well. We'll head to the next chapter. Thank you very much. Thanks so much for coming in today.
[00:52:20] Becky: Thanks, James.
[00:52:21] James: Thanks, Becky.
Thank you to Becky for joining me on All About Business. To find out more about implementing purpose within your business or about Becky herself, visit givenagency. com or check out her podcast, Purposing. I'm your host, James Reed, chairman and CEO of Reed, a family run recruitment and philanthropy company.
If you'd like to find out more about Reed's purpose and mission, you can find our page on sustainability on our website. All links are in the show notes. See you next [00:53:00] time.